Today's Transcripts: Feb 9, 2015
No trial tomorrow/ returns Wed 9:30am
The Judge wants to talk to each juror individually back in chambers
In communications between TA and JA he told her he could have his passwords so how is this unwanted and intrusive?
D- I wouldn't conclude that intrusive but as time went on he didn't want her to access these things and he told her not to and she continued
Some communications between TA and other women where TA said Jodi wouldn't leave him alone. Were these women aware he was still seeing her?
D- They weren't aware of the extent
How long in total did Jodi work at the Purple Plum both times
D- I need to look ...not sure
Did you monitor her at all after the 4 times
D- NO
How far back did your forensic evaluation go and were all the records available
D- Yes as far as I knew I had everything
Do you consider BPD a mental illness or physiological disorder..why?
D- She described the disorder
How does dissociation play into BPD?
D- It's anxiety provoking and it's a protective factor
In your assessment was Jodi mentally ill prior to murder?
D- BPD doesn't come out of the blue it happens over time
Without having training in DAPS, why do you think Geffner did this incorrectly?
D- It's self reporting and you don't need extensive training in this. I've read the manual several times and the mistakes were clear
How many test are available in diagnsing PTSD and the other disorders the DR. tested her on
D- There are some more popular than others with research but there are many
How many did you administer
D- 4 seperate ones
How many years of experience do you have on treating DV
D- since 2004 I see this routinely
How many years experience with sexual abuse?
D- 2204 but I see this all the time
Do these require certification?
D- You need testing but for DV there isn't anything out there
When treating patients in 2004-08 did you have another psychologist with you
D- We see the patients by ourselves but meet with a licensed psychologist
Do you feel the knowledge of a sexual assault is as damaging as the memory of it?
D- It can manifest into PTSD but you have to have the symptoms
Can the body have reactions to certain stimuli that trigger feelings to suppressed memories
D- It can trigger emotions and a physical response
Juan asks DeMarte again if Jodi knew right from wrong and she says Yes
DeMarte says Jodi didn't have PTSD
We have juror questions Juan is done
DeMarte says she was hired to psychologically evaluate Jodi not Travis
J-Can you even assess TA ethically
DeMarte- Well we are limited on what we can gather. It wouldn't be complete because he's not alive and can't take tests
Travis said in a text that he was afraid Jodi would kill herself or him
DeMarte says Jodi told too many different stories regarding the DV and one of the incidents of not wanting to scratch his eye was illogical
Jury is back in and Juan is asking DeMarte about her experience with DV
DeMarte says she sees a lot of people with these issues
DeMarte says she doesn't hold conferences or seminars because she's a clinician and not a researcher and her interest is in her patients
Noon recess back at 1:30pm MST
Journal entry July 9, 2008
It's Jodi's birthday. She spoke with Ryan and they didn't talk much (3 hours) Ryan made her aware people were dropping her name about TA's death. Jodi says she's knows what's true and this is poisoning Utah for her
Maybe this is what I get for my sexually transgressions, wonder what TA is going through right now
This is a murder, homicide. Who could harm TA? We did have arguments but loving and kindness. He didn't deserve death. Not for him or for me.
Jodi says she had nothing to do with this tragedy and she takes comfort in the truth
Jodi says she forgives people for pointing at her and she won't throw people under the bus. She's no lady of justice but TA didn't deserve that
DeMarte says she always considers the the context. In the sex tape DeMarte says they were saying a number of sexual things together
Detective Flores is gathering some evidence for Juan while they are sidebaring
DeMarte is reading the email from Jodi...she does this so well lol
Jodi is saying her and Travis will see the sites in Oregon and she will be visiting him. But she knows he will be in Cancun and she will crash in his bed while he's gone
DeMarte says she takes this at face value and considered it because Travis was dead and Jodi was emailing him
She also took the text at face value about Jodi asking Travis if he deposited her check after she had killed him and considered it
Now they are discussing a journal entry- July 9, 2008
Sidebar
Now an email from Jodi to Travis after he was murdered. Jodi is saying she hasn't heard from him
Sidebar
Nurmi wanted to voir dire DeMarte and Judge said no, it's already in evidence.
Juan is showing this evidence he is using is Defense evidence
In this text Travis is talking to Julie about finding him a wife and talking that Sarah is too young
Juan points out no sexual texting was going on and Julie was on the chart from Geff regarding Travis's sexting
J- Isn't it true in indicating this mental illness/disorder you looked at the fact Jodi spied on Travis outside his window and showed up to his house uninvited
D- Yes
Juan put up the Travis texting chart and asked how old a girl was and DeMarte didn't know
J- If we we're talking about mental illness just about every person that's in jail has mental illness
Objection/sustained
J- If you were to test inmates and they had adjustment disorder they also would have a mental illness correct?
D- Yes
J- Wasn't Jodi described as being clingy and jealous?
D- Yes
J- In Jodi's journal she said she felt abandoned by Bobby and she loved him like no other
D- Yes
J- Wasn't the defendant found hiding under Travis's Christmas Tree?
D- Yes
Sidebar
J- Portion of your report talks about mental illness and what the factors were for you to use that term
DeMarte- It's another term for psy disorder
J-How many times did you use that word "mental illness" in your report?
D- 3 times
J- Did you report as far as mental illness she had a quick attachment to men?
Sidebar
Jodi says her mom and other family members have a history for depression and no one has been treated for their mental illness
Page 27 in DeMarte's report says: Arias has BPD and anxiety, depression, worry that her mother won't follow through with her requests about the trial, appetite disturbance etc
DeMarte diagnoses Jodi with adjustment disorder and it can be labeled also as a mental illness
DeMarte says this is a data point on Jodi's interactions with others
The cousin called her snide, sarcastic, and a total bitch...this goes with being intrusive which is a symptom of Borderline
J- Mental illness is just a label right?
DeMarte- Yes
J- Did Jodi know right from wrong?
D- Yes she does
Nurmi objects she didn't test her/Judge overrules
J- remember the line of questioning about jerk?
D- Yes
J- Does this assist in people getting an understanding on interactions of people
D- Yes
Juan puts up statement from cousin calling Jodi a "total bitch" and asks if that assisted DeMarte lol
Oh Nurmi needs an approach
What is your ethical obligation to psy tests
DeMarte- To maintain test security. I can't just pass it out to people. The ?'s don't get out
How does this work for someone that has retained you?
DeMarte- There are specialty guidelines for prosecutors for instance and it's my job to fully inform them
J- How did you discuss this with the prosecutor
D- We talked about the answers and I had to educate and inform him
J- Have you ever run a seminar and had counsel you were working for speak at it
DeMarte- No
DeMarte- Mental illness is just another label for psy disorder
Juan- Does this mean the defendant is incompetent?
Nurmi wants a sidebar
Something is up with Willmott....someone heard Maria say "Oh God" and
Jodi rubbed Jen's back
Jodi and Maria remain in courtroom. Willmott is texting outside like crazy
We are at recess....don't know anymore details. Juan took family to the back
Jury came out, Nurmi called a sidebar, jury being sent back out and we have a sidebar
Nurmi, Jodi, Maria, Willmott all talking intensely
Nurmi calls DeMarte Dr. Death for the State again and Juan get's it stricken from the record
Nurmi is done
10 minute recess
Nurmi says isn't it objective data that Travis knew what a 12 year old's orgasm sounded like and he wanted to cork the pot of a 12 year old
DeMarte says that's not objective
Nurmi calls DeMarte Dr. Death for the State again and Juan get's it stricken from the record
Nurmi is done
Nurmi is putting up a journal entry by Jodi and the "No sexual or physical abuse"
So are you using this as evidence these things didn't take place?
DeMarte- It's a data point
Nurmi is asking if DeMarte believed Jodi's self reporting
She said she didn't use all of that for a diagnosis
Nurmi says but you will if it benefits the state
DeMarte- No
Nurmi says Jodi's brother stated abuse happened in family
DeMarte says she didn't read that in the records and she'd like to look at it
Nurmi says just answer the questions
Nurmi says DeMarte is spitting in the face of test results
DeMarte says what's the question
OK now onto the masturbation incident
Nurmi says "You said Jodi journaled about everything...is there a class you took on journaling?
DeMarte- NO
Nurmi says don't you think an appellate court will find your testimony on DV questionable
Nurmi puts up the fact Jodi said no sexual or physical abuse happened
Nurmi says and you took this at face value
Nurmi says the validity scales said it was valid . When did you become a guerro on these matters?
DeMarte says is this a question
Nurmi says I will withdraw this since you don't know
DeMarte asks to see an exhibit Nurmi is asking about and Nurmi responds so when you don't want to answer a question you need an exhibit....
DeMarte says I'd like to see what you're referring too
Nurmi scrambles to find it lol
Juan is objecting like crazy and winning
Nurmi says "oh did Juan write the questions from tests over your shoulder?"
DeMarte- No
Nurmi- Where did Juan sit when you discussed this
DeMarte- He sat across from me and we discussed Jodi's inconsistencies
Nurmi- So you violated rules to keep your part time job with the state
DeMarte- That's not a violation
DeMarte answers that Jodi did cheat some tests in response to Nurmi's question and Nurmi says "Is this the scheme you and Mr. Martinez cooked up?"
Juan calls for an approach
Nurmi is saying DeMarte violated copyright laws
DeMarte- This is incorrect
Nurmi- You did this again in this trial
DeMarte- No.
DeMarte says she never gave the questions to Juan but she's allowed to discuss them with him so he has an understanding
Nurmi says Juan looked at questions and DeMarte says she didn't violate
anything
Nurmi talks through Juan objections saying she breaks rules for Juan
DeMarte says you are misstating the rule
Nurmi isn't letting DeMarte ask "what rule are you referring too?" He cuts her off and argues with Juan and Judge tells them both, "One at a time" OMG it's heated in here
In Transcript- DeMarte says in first trial she didn't give Juan the questions to test but they reviewed the result together
Juan objects to improper impeachment and we have a sidebar
Nurmi says Geffner gave DeMarte the statement about not releasing questions for tests because she has a history of doing this
DeMarte- That's not correct
Nurmi is getting transcripts from guilt phase of trial
DeMarte must be using psychology on Nurmi...he can't shake her
DeMarte says she's able to say she has 8 years experience because she was seeing patients and this is standard practice
Nurmi is yelling his head off and screaming you can't say you have that experience since you weren't licensed!!!!!!
DeMarte is cool as a cucumber
Nurmi wants DeMarte to talk about sexual addiction
Nurmi is saying DeMarte counting 8 years experience is unethical she was licensed in 2010
Nurmi says according the licensing board you can't count student time
and now he's asking about credentials. DeMarte asks him to repeat and Nurmi says ok you don't know what credentials means
Nurmi is being really aggressive
Nurmi asks DeMarte what day it is today and she didn't know as she chuckled
Nurmi wants to talk about DeMarte's experience and how she counted student time for that
Nurmi filed a motion for a mistrial over Geffner...
Jodi is here in khaki sweater, hair down, glasses on
Alexander family has a lot of people here. First row is nice and full. Jodi has her mom and a friend
We have a juror coughing like crazy and she looks like hell. Hope she makes it #jodiarias
The Judge wants to talk to each juror individually back in chambers
In communications between TA and JA he told her he could have his passwords so how is this unwanted and intrusive?
D- I wouldn't conclude that intrusive but as time went on he didn't want her to access these things and he told her not to and she continued
Some communications between TA and other women where TA said Jodi wouldn't leave him alone. Were these women aware he was still seeing her?
D- They weren't aware of the extent
How long in total did Jodi work at the Purple Plum both times
D- I need to look ...not sure
Did you monitor her at all after the 4 times
D- NO
How far back did your forensic evaluation go and were all the records available
D- Yes as far as I knew I had everything
Do you consider BPD a mental illness or physiological disorder..why?
D- She described the disorder
How does dissociation play into BPD?
D- It's anxiety provoking and it's a protective factor
In your assessment was Jodi mentally ill prior to murder?
D- BPD doesn't come out of the blue it happens over time
Without having training in DAPS, why do you think Geffner did this incorrectly?
D- It's self reporting and you don't need extensive training in this. I've read the manual several times and the mistakes were clear
How many test are available in diagnsing PTSD and the other disorders the DR. tested her on
D- There are some more popular than others with research but there are many
How many did you administer
D- 4 seperate ones
How many years of experience do you have on treating DV
D- since 2004 I see this routinely
How many years experience with sexual abuse?
D- 2204 but I see this all the time
Do these require certification?
D- You need testing but for DV there isn't anything out there
When treating patients in 2004-08 did you have another psychologist with you
D- We see the patients by ourselves but meet with a licensed psychologist
Do you feel the knowledge of a sexual assault is as damaging as the memory of it?
D- It can manifest into PTSD but you have to have the symptoms
Can the body have reactions to certain stimuli that trigger feelings to suppressed memories
D- It can trigger emotions and a physical response
Juan asks DeMarte again if Jodi knew right from wrong and she says Yes
DeMarte says Jodi didn't have PTSD
We have juror questions Juan is done
DeMarte says she was hired to psychologically evaluate Jodi not Travis
J-Can you even assess TA ethically
DeMarte- Well we are limited on what we can gather. It wouldn't be complete because he's not alive and can't take tests
Travis said in a text that he was afraid Jodi would kill herself or him
DeMarte says Jodi told too many different stories regarding the DV and one of the incidents of not wanting to scratch his eye was illogical
Jury is back in and Juan is asking DeMarte about her experience with DV
DeMarte says she sees a lot of people with these issues
DeMarte says she doesn't hold conferences or seminars because she's a clinician and not a researcher and her interest is in her patients
Noon recess back at 1:30pm MST
Journal entry July 9, 2008
It's Jodi's birthday. She spoke with Ryan and they didn't talk much (3 hours) Ryan made her aware people were dropping her name about TA's death. Jodi says she's knows what's true and this is poisoning Utah for her
Maybe this is what I get for my sexually transgressions, wonder what TA is going through right now
This is a murder, homicide. Who could harm TA? We did have arguments but loving and kindness. He didn't deserve death. Not for him or for me.
Jodi says she had nothing to do with this tragedy and she takes comfort in the truth
Jodi says she forgives people for pointing at her and she won't throw people under the bus. She's no lady of justice but TA didn't deserve that
DeMarte says she always considers the the context. In the sex tape DeMarte says they were saying a number of sexual things together
Detective Flores is gathering some evidence for Juan while they are sidebaring
DeMarte is reading the email from Jodi...she does this so well lol
Jodi is saying her and Travis will see the sites in Oregon and she will be visiting him. But she knows he will be in Cancun and she will crash in his bed while he's gone
DeMarte says she takes this at face value and considered it because Travis was dead and Jodi was emailing him
She also took the text at face value about Jodi asking Travis if he deposited her check after she had killed him and considered it
Now they are discussing a journal entry- July 9, 2008
Sidebar
Now an email from Jodi to Travis after he was murdered. Jodi is saying she hasn't heard from him
Sidebar
Nurmi wanted to voir dire DeMarte and Judge said no, it's already in evidence.
Juan is showing this evidence he is using is Defense evidence
In this text Travis is talking to Julie about finding him a wife and talking that Sarah is too young
Juan points out no sexual texting was going on and Julie was on the chart from Geff regarding Travis's sexting
J- Isn't it true in indicating this mental illness/disorder you looked at the fact Jodi spied on Travis outside his window and showed up to his house uninvited
D- Yes
Juan put up the Travis texting chart and asked how old a girl was and DeMarte didn't know
J- If we we're talking about mental illness just about every person that's in jail has mental illness
Objection/sustained
J- If you were to test inmates and they had adjustment disorder they also would have a mental illness correct?
D- Yes
J- Wasn't Jodi described as being clingy and jealous?
D- Yes
J- In Jodi's journal she said she felt abandoned by Bobby and she loved him like no other
D- Yes
J- Wasn't the defendant found hiding under Travis's Christmas Tree?
D- Yes
Sidebar
J- Portion of your report talks about mental illness and what the factors were for you to use that term
DeMarte- It's another term for psy disorder
J-How many times did you use that word "mental illness" in your report?
D- 3 times
J- Did you report as far as mental illness she had a quick attachment to men?
Sidebar
Jodi says her mom and other family members have a history for depression and no one has been treated for their mental illness
Page 27 in DeMarte's report says: Arias has BPD and anxiety, depression, worry that her mother won't follow through with her requests about the trial, appetite disturbance etc
DeMarte diagnoses Jodi with adjustment disorder and it can be labeled also as a mental illness
DeMarte says this is a data point on Jodi's interactions with others
The cousin called her snide, sarcastic, and a total bitch...this goes with being intrusive which is a symptom of Borderline
J- Mental illness is just a label right?
DeMarte- Yes
J- Did Jodi know right from wrong?
D- Yes she does
Nurmi objects she didn't test her/Judge overrules
J- remember the line of questioning about jerk?
D- Yes
J- Does this assist in people getting an understanding on interactions of people
D- Yes
Juan puts up statement from cousin calling Jodi a "total bitch" and asks if that assisted DeMarte lol
Oh Nurmi needs an approach
What is your ethical obligation to psy tests
DeMarte- To maintain test security. I can't just pass it out to people. The ?'s don't get out
How does this work for someone that has retained you?
DeMarte- There are specialty guidelines for prosecutors for instance and it's my job to fully inform them
J- How did you discuss this with the prosecutor
D- We talked about the answers and I had to educate and inform him
J- Have you ever run a seminar and had counsel you were working for speak at it
DeMarte- No
DeMarte- Mental illness is just another label for psy disorder
Juan- Does this mean the defendant is incompetent?
Nurmi wants a sidebar
Something is up with Willmott....someone heard Maria say "Oh God" and
Jodi rubbed Jen's back
Jodi and Maria remain in courtroom. Willmott is texting outside like crazy
We are at recess....don't know anymore details. Juan took family to the back
Jury came out, Nurmi called a sidebar, jury being sent back out and we have a sidebar
Nurmi, Jodi, Maria, Willmott all talking intensely
Nurmi calls DeMarte Dr. Death for the State again and Juan get's it stricken from the record
Nurmi is done
10 minute recess
Nurmi says isn't it objective data that Travis knew what a 12 year old's orgasm sounded like and he wanted to cork the pot of a 12 year old
DeMarte says that's not objective
Nurmi calls DeMarte Dr. Death for the State again and Juan get's it stricken from the record
Nurmi is done
Nurmi is putting up a journal entry by Jodi and the "No sexual or physical abuse"
So are you using this as evidence these things didn't take place?
DeMarte- It's a data point
Nurmi is asking if DeMarte believed Jodi's self reporting
She said she didn't use all of that for a diagnosis
Nurmi says but you will if it benefits the state
DeMarte- No
Nurmi says Jodi's brother stated abuse happened in family
DeMarte says she didn't read that in the records and she'd like to look at it
Nurmi says just answer the questions
Nurmi says DeMarte is spitting in the face of test results
DeMarte says what's the question
OK now onto the masturbation incident
Nurmi says "You said Jodi journaled about everything...is there a class you took on journaling?
DeMarte- NO
Nurmi says don't you think an appellate court will find your testimony on DV questionable
Nurmi puts up the fact Jodi said no sexual or physical abuse happened
Nurmi says and you took this at face value
Nurmi says the validity scales said it was valid . When did you become a guerro on these matters?
DeMarte says is this a question
Nurmi says I will withdraw this since you don't know
DeMarte asks to see an exhibit Nurmi is asking about and Nurmi responds so when you don't want to answer a question you need an exhibit....
DeMarte says I'd like to see what you're referring too
Nurmi scrambles to find it lol
Juan is objecting like crazy and winning
Nurmi says "oh did Juan write the questions from tests over your shoulder?"
DeMarte- No
Nurmi- Where did Juan sit when you discussed this
DeMarte- He sat across from me and we discussed Jodi's inconsistencies
Nurmi- So you violated rules to keep your part time job with the state
DeMarte- That's not a violation
DeMarte answers that Jodi did cheat some tests in response to Nurmi's question and Nurmi says "Is this the scheme you and Mr. Martinez cooked up?"
Juan calls for an approach
Nurmi is saying DeMarte violated copyright laws
DeMarte- This is incorrect
Nurmi- You did this again in this trial
DeMarte- No.
DeMarte says she never gave the questions to Juan but she's allowed to discuss them with him so he has an understanding
Nurmi says Juan looked at questions and DeMarte says she didn't violate
anything
Nurmi talks through Juan objections saying she breaks rules for Juan
DeMarte says you are misstating the rule
Nurmi isn't letting DeMarte ask "what rule are you referring too?" He cuts her off and argues with Juan and Judge tells them both, "One at a time" OMG it's heated in here
In Transcript- DeMarte says in first trial she didn't give Juan the questions to test but they reviewed the result together
Juan objects to improper impeachment and we have a sidebar
Nurmi says Geffner gave DeMarte the statement about not releasing questions for tests because she has a history of doing this
DeMarte- That's not correct
Nurmi is getting transcripts from guilt phase of trial
DeMarte must be using psychology on Nurmi...he can't shake her
DeMarte says she's able to say she has 8 years experience because she was seeing patients and this is standard practice
Nurmi is yelling his head off and screaming you can't say you have that experience since you weren't licensed!!!!!!
DeMarte is cool as a cucumber
Nurmi wants DeMarte to talk about sexual addiction
Nurmi is saying DeMarte counting 8 years experience is unethical she was licensed in 2010
Nurmi says according the licensing board you can't count student time
and now he's asking about credentials. DeMarte asks him to repeat and Nurmi says ok you don't know what credentials means
Nurmi is being really aggressive
Nurmi asks DeMarte what day it is today and she didn't know as she chuckled
Nurmi wants to talk about DeMarte's experience and how she counted student time for that
Nurmi filed a motion for a mistrial over Geffner...
Jodi is here in khaki sweater, hair down, glasses on
Alexander family has a lot of people here. First row is nice and full. Jodi has her mom and a friend
We have a juror coughing like crazy and she looks like hell. Hope she makes it #jodiarias
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