Today in Court Feb 5: Dr.DeMarte - Witness
Seems Nurmi learned from Juan Martinez. He's using Juan's tactics to cross examine Dr.DeMarte but she's a step of Nurmi.
Kirk Nurmi begins his cross of Dr. DeMarte by saying "Good morning," and when she doesn't answer, he says, "I'm sorry, I didn't hear you."
DeMarte says good morning. Then Nurmi asks her to produce her resume, which he is going through now.
Travis Alexander's friend Chris Hughes is in the gallery today.
DeMarte is in private practice for therapy and evaluations services.
Nurmi asks about two other death penalty cases DeMarte worked on. She says no. When he presses she says she testified on them. Then says 3.
"You work part-time as a sort of Dr. Death," Nurmi says to DeMarte. He asks how many hours she worked on this case, she answers, "several."
DeMarte charges $300 per hour.
Nurmi says violent relationships would have a pattern. "Not necessarily," DeMarte answers. The back and forth is very curt.
Nurmi has DeMarte describing & defining "physical" & "emotional abuse".
Personality disorders are enduring and begin early in life, DeMarte says.
DeMarte says she prefers "psychological disorder" to "mental illness." Nurmi says, "You understand, I don't care about your preferences..."
Nurmi is telling DeMarte she did not diagnose JA as having adjustment disorder. He asks her to look at last page of her report.
Nurmi and DeMarte quibble over whether her writing that JA was "showing symptoms of adjustment disorder" is a diagnosis.
Nurmi is as aggressive today as Juan Martinez usually is during cross examination.
DeMarte agrees with Nurmi that borderline personality is a serious mental illness.
Nurmi asks DeMarte to explain a researcher's theory on the origin of borderline personality--born with a sensitivity to not control emotion.
DeMarte says it usually needs a trigger. Nurmi asks to take the mornign break.
Nurmi lingers over definitions of borderline personality disorder in his questions for DeMarte.
DeMarte says that BPD could develop in those who are genetically predisposed if the person's feelings are continuously invalidated.
DeMarte and Nurmi use the phrase "invalidating environment."
Nurmi asks DeMarte for examples of invalidating environment in Arias' background. DeMarte says Arias and parents did not agree.
DeMarte: And when parents don't understand why the child is upset and say "stop it," it perpetuates the environment
JA told DeMarte she was sexually attacked by a family member when she was 5 or 6.
DeMarte brings up "Evocative gene environment coordination" = you pick up the cute, happy baby, not the ugly whiny one.
DeMarte: They have a dire fear they will be abandoned and so they glom on.
DeMarte talking about JA changing hair and getting a breast enhancement possibly as a way to change identity to please the people around her.
Nurmi asks DeMarte about Arias' relationship with Daryl Brewer, re: idealization.
Nurmi, DeMarte now seem to be having an almost collegial conversation about psych symptoms. Nurmi even said "That makes sense," at one point.
LUNCH
Are you aware of the correspondence of JA and TA of who this Michelle was?
DeMarte- No
In text TA talks to Michelle about an invasion of his privacy but Nurmi says TA was having sex with JA at this time
DeMarte said he liked having sex with her but he didn't like her behaviors of invading his privacy, spying on him, breaking into his social media accounts and emails
Nurmi- TDogg had patterns with women according to Fonseca
Well call the police Travis was speaking to other women as a single man! Good grief
Nurmi says TA took advantage of Jodi's Borderline Personality to have sex with her
DeMarte - NO
Now Nurmi puts up the chart Geff did on TA's text messages with women
Now the Reagan text with TA about the stalking....KN says yet phone sex happened between JA and TA
Nurmi says actions speak louder than words
DeMarte- Travis had strong emotions in 2 different areas. He liked her company and things about her but he didn't like her intrusive behaviors
Nurmi- Why did he like having sex with her
DeMarte- Because he liked having sex with her and other aspects about her
Nurmi- Do you think TA loved Jodi?
DeMarte- Early on yes I think he did
Nurmi- TA was telling people he didn't want JA around but he was contacting her.
DeMarte says TA didn't like her intrusive behavior
DeMarte didn't feel this relationship was hidden
Nurmi says well people said Jodi was stalking TA and these people were saying she was sneaking in house. But these people didn't know they were having sex
DeMarte says a sexual relationship yes but some knew he was in a relationship with her
Nurmi says Jodi had a struggle between her morals and this sexual behavior like Travis did...
DeMarte agreed
Nurmi asks if DeMarte reviewed Fonseca's notes and the relationship between TA and JA
DeMarte- Yes
Nurmi- She said it was secret and underground and TA was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde
DeMarte's cold chill on the witness stand to Nurmi should cool off the Judge lol
Nurmi suggest DeMarte is testifying on things she knows nothing about
DeMarte straight face goes "Not true"
Nurmi is talking up the Geff and how experienced he is
Nurmi trying to trip up DeMarte by asking her what a test stands for that Geff gave....she nailed it ....DeMarte 20- Nurmi 1
Nurmi- are you aware TA was exposed to DV as a child
DeMarte- I did read he had a difficult childhood but nothing further than that
Nurmi- So your case review is incomplete?
DeMarte- No I was evaluating JA
Nurmi- Victims of DV don't always report
DeMarte- Yes
Nurmi asks why DeMarte didn't read Travis's journals
DeMarte says she wasn't hired to evaluate Mr. Alexander
Nurmi asks well if TA was abused wouldn't that be important
Juan objects this is not to mitigating factors and we have a sidebar
Nurmi is saying DeMarte can't count her experience as a student
DeMarte says what do you mean by "count"
Nurmi says "You were only licensed a year when giving Jodi tests"
DeMarte says experience doesn't come the minute you become licensed. She tells jury she constantly saw patients since 2004
DeMarte says she couldn't call herself a psychologist until licensed
Nurmi says so you are going to count your experience in High School?
DeMarte says no I wasn't seeing patients then
Nurmi gave up he couldn't win that one
DeMarte says she can see a change in body language when people have intrusive thoughts
DeMarte says she's an expert on trauma and can correlate this with behaviors of how the person acts while having an intrusive thought
Nurmi calls her a mind reader
Nurmi says "You are here to answer my questions!"
Juan objects on "Harassment" and Judge overrules
Nurmi- You can't just look at someone and say they do or don't have PTSD..you have to have training
DeMarte- Yes you have to have training
Nurmi- You only know the things you want to know to support your opinions
DeMarte- NO
Nurmi- Both Dr's that diagnosed Jodi with PTSD had over 30 years experience
SIdebar Juan wants to approach he says Nurmi is testifying
Nurmi says you gave these tests when you were licensed for 9 months
DeMarte- NO
Nurmi- Well about a year
DeMarte- NO it was a year
Nurmi asks if DeMarte did lectures, peer reviews during this time frame of 2011 when she was testing Jodi - DeMarte says NO
Some of Jodi's results show she was elevated on the TSI
Depression
Avoidance
Nurmi asks if these are symptoms of PTSD..DeMarte says if someone is depressed it doesn't mean they have PTSD
Avoidance could be a symptom of PTSD
DeMarte says the way Jodi describes the Bobby DV incidnet and how she experienced it wasn't PTSD
Nurmi says what about when Jodi was held at knife point by another boy while she was with her brother? DeMarte says yes she was frightened
According to Jodi she was grabbed by shoulder, choked and shook by TA ...DeMarte says the choking could cause PTSD
Problem is Jodi didn't show signs of having PTSD
The Wooden Spoon.....
Digging of nails into Jodi's arm by her mom
This was invalidating in Jodi's childhood, correct?
DeMarte keeps schooling Nurmi when he tries to say what DeMarte testified too. She says NO, I didn't say that and you are mixing terms up. Nurmi get's a little flustered
Nurmi- In PTSD there doesn't have to be one defining trauma right?
DeMarte- I need to explain more......
Nurmi really didn't let her
Nurmi " IN your opinion when is it best to diagnose PTSD?"
DeMarte- There's no set time
Nurmi said when Travis said Jodi orgasms like a 12 year old girl he knows what that sounded like correct?
DeMarte NO
Nurmi says so you say Jodi doesn't suffer from PTSD from your interpretation from the testing...
DeMarte- Yes
Nurmi- Can someone with BP also have PTSD?
DeMarte- Yes it can happen
I love how Nurmi asks her a question expecting a yes and she says no and it throws him off
Nurmi is telling DeMarte "this is a forum for you to answer my questions"....
DeMarte wanted an example of what Nurmi is trying to ask because he's lost lol
Nurmi says Jodi was Travis's sexual muse. He asks DeMarte if she agrees
DeMarte says they both wanted this relationship
Nurmi says but Jodi has molded herself for Travis and wanted to please him
DeMarte says it's possible
Nurmi says Travis wanted Jodi to be a slut
DeMarte says NO
Nurmi says TA wanted to tie Jodi to a tree and put it in her arce
DeMarte says they both talked about it
Nurmi wants to talk about the explanation of a "facial" Not the kind we get at the spa ladies lol
DeMarte says Jodi asked for it so she took it at face value (no pun intended)
DeMarte agrees the sex was as problematic for Jodi as it was Travis
DeMarte agrees TA and JA weren't forced to have sex with each other
DeMarte doesn't question that oral, penile vaginal, or anal intercourse happened.......there ya go he got that in AGAIN lol
DeMarte says Jodi breaking up with Daryl and going with Travis right away is Borderline Personality given her pattern
Nurmi makes a dig on DeMarte that's she "not aware of a lot"
Nurmi states "this mentally ill woman then meets TA"
DeMarte- Yes
Nurmi- No prior criminal history for Jodi Arias
DeMarte- Not that I'm aware of
Nurmi calls DeMarte biased because Jodi broke up with Daryl and moved on with Travis and that this blows DeMarte's theory
Nurmi says to DeMarte "Aren't you aware that Jodi broke up with Daryl?"
DeMarte wants to look at her notes ...she answers she isn't sure
Nurmi is bringing up the Bianca issue and Matt said it was "not a nasty confrontation"
Jodi and Daryl lived in a home together even after they broke up
DeMarte says they had issues with Jodi not paying the mortgage
Nurmi said Bobby and Matt's relationship with Jodi didn't come to a nasty ending
DeMarte found inappropriate and intense anger in Jodi
Nurmi shows email from Jodi talking about anger..kicking walls etc
Nurmi once again says "this was her own words correct?" DeMarte says "yes"
Nurmi wants to talk about Jodi's emotions going up and down and his common theme is DeMarte used Jodi's self reporting
Nurmi wants evidence from DeMarte Jodi had suicidal ideation
Zenya mentioned Jodi wrote a suicidal letter in HS
Jodi wrote about wanting to die in her journals
Sandy said Jodi would call and says she wanted to die
No evidence anyone got Jodi help
Noon recess until 1:25pm MST
Jodi told DeMarte she would change according to who she dated
Nurmi states when
#jodiarias got the boob job, new car it could have given her validation from Daryl
DeMarte tells Nurmi he's mixing up a bunch of terms..lol
Nurmi is bringing up how Jodi would change herself per boyfriend
DeMarte is trying to answer stuff but Nurmi is out of her league and isn't asking things that make sense lol
Nurmi says DeMarte said Jodi went back to back with boyfriends
Matt told Jodi relationship was over and Jodi was idealizing him and extremely attached
DeMarte brings up Jodi got a boob job, new car, while with Daryl, and she could have done this to hang onto him
Nurmi says because Jodi wanted to remain friends with Matt M after he cheated on her it showed her signs of fear of abandonment
DeMarte said "Yes and other things I used to come to that conclusion"
Jodi told DeMarte she looked at TA's MySpace account and got into his emails
Nurmi is trying to say well it's just her word and not a database that proves that
DeMarte is explaining abandonment and she does this just beautifully for the jury ....she's that good
What about Arias not remembering this sexual attack?
DeMarte says it's not unusual to not remember at such a young age..
DeMarte is excellent for this jury giving them simple examples to help them understand emotions in people and borderline personality disorder
Jodi told DeMarte she was sexually attacked by a family member when she was 5 or 6
DeMarte said Jodi had no memory of the event
Nurmi wants examples of Jodi not being validated?
DeMarte says Jodi told her that her parents wouldn't validate her emotions
DeMarte says when someone has Borderline it's hard on the parents and they don't know how to react and things get perpetuated
DeMarte- The environment one grows up in where the persons feelings aren't validated can trigger Borderline Personality
Nurmi- So this is more than not being paid attention too by a parent this is a lot more right?
DeMarte- Right
Was Jodi's environment one that she didn't get validation?
DeMarte- From what Jodi told me yes
Nurmi is talking about some people are born vulnerabilities to certain disorders
DeMarte says yes and researchers think some kind of environmental factor can trigger it
DeMarte has done 4 DP cases where she testified for State
Nurmi points out she was testifying on sentencing phase only..calling DeMarte "Dr. Death"
DeMarte takes issue with Nurmi trying to say the bulk of her work is therapy...DeMarte says NO it's 50/50 therapy and evaluations
She's not wavering at all!
Jodi is grinning with Maria as Nurmi asks DeMarte to get out her records on the work she has done on the Jodi Arias case
Jodi is here in a purple sweater, hair down, glasses on and Maria on her right side.
